sadness

I've not even looked at this group for a while, and now I know why.

There's nothing good that results when many people of the same mind get together. A hive-mind is created, and besides bees, there's not much good about such a situation.

The problem that I see with this thread (and many others of this group when I used to join and post) is that most here have only a few modes of thought that result in few opinions, such as:

1) Israel is bad, what they do is bad, and they are bad. They are the primary cause of the conflict, and if anything is ever going to result in a positive result, then it is Israel that is going to have to change and kowtow to any and all demands of them.

That's the first one. The next one is even worse.

2) Everyone should just get along.

The problem with this one, while respectful and loving, is that Pollyannas never really solve any problems on their own, and therapy generally is the only solution.

But, #1 holds the most promise, and since most people are of the #1 opinion, that means that there is hope for change. There's hope for change, because at least these people use 'facts' - factual or not - to back up their opinions.

For instance, "Israeli is sliding towards genocide."

This comment is made, yet no one will ask this writer to support that opinion? How exactly is this happening? I would assume that you're taking about Gaza, since the West Bank is so relatively better off. Yet - I don't think that there can be a charge of genocide when the group in 'danger' has the difficult choice between Coke or Pepsi in their cup, or what to do on a given holiday. Should they go to the beach or to a friend's home? A very slow genocide, indeed.

Are these choices under the shadow of some expected genocide? I don't think that the people in Darfur had those choices. They'd have been happy with either Coke OR Pepsi instead of the mass slaughter, the REAL genocide that was perpetrated upon them. You are minimizing what actually happened to them or the Albanians by calling what has gone on for a year and some in Gaza by this term.

With a peace plan, there'll be no missiles from Gaza, and with no missiles form Gaza, there'll be no repression.

Thus, this ridiculous nonsense about "genocide"? I remember when a few months ago there were all of a sudden many stories about a Muslim "holocaust" or "genocide" against the Gazans. I recognized this more as a PR stunt or marketing of a word, rather than a real relationship with a word that already has been rather well defined, thank you.

So, again I point out: Israel has ALREADY agreed in principle to the maps drawn at Camp David, maps that return 97% (!!!) of the West Bank to what will be the country of Palestine, and on a 1:1 land swap deal, Gaza will get around 12% LARGER.

But, Hamas does not really appreciate this ideal of 'peace'. I mean, their charter STILL calls for the destruction of Israel - you're all aware of that, right - and you want Israel, while under the rain of Hamas' missiles, to chat with them? Really?

Yes. It's Israel's fault. While they are talking with Abbas' government, you blame them for not talking to Hamas' government. Got it.

Well, maybe the pollyannas ARE better. At least they are more pleasant to talk to. They don't say such silly things as, "After all I live in an occupied community, a small soviet police state called American public housing."

<The world will always be filled with people who would do others harm.>

A more truthful statement has rarely been spoken.

Remind me please - before Israel went back into Lebanon, how often did they attack S. Lebanon over the two years that Hizbollah was attacking Israel? Answer? None. And, how many times did Israel attack Gaza for the year after they unconditionally left, before they went back in because of the rain of first mortars, and then missiles? Answer: None.

Another question: When was the last time that Israel bombed the West Bank? When was the last time that Israel invaded the West Bank?

What is the difference?

Well, no missiles coming from the West Bank? Is that possible? A government there that would rather talk than kill? Is that possible? "The world will always be filled with people who would do others harm." Yes, and Israel will talk with those that want to talk, and Israel will attack back those that attack them.

Yet - many here just want to blame Israel. 'Israel is so much stronger than the Pal's!!!' many here will often repeat ad nausium. I will remind them then that Israel is surrounded by over 100 million Muslims. They are not just defending themselves against the Pal's, but against the armies that use these terrorist groups as proxies. Thus the checkpoints, thus the blockades, thus the walls. Because of the attacks.

<My entire life I have been living in a sort of blindness, disconnected from the consequences of my actions, whether it be a continent sized plastic blob in the Northern Pacific, the blood of a Nigerian peasant killed over oil, or a Bangladeshi woman making a pair of shoes I might buy. >

Then do something about it beyond typing on your computer in your warm apartment - albeit Socialist - with your MTV blaring. Do something that makes your life difficult. Nablus sounds difficult. If you're still on Tribe next year writing from your warm apartment, I may remind you about this day...


This thread is labeled correctly. It's sad that people will react to the results instead of understand what CAUSED these results. It's a sad thing, but I do believe that the Israelis understand this, and they're not waiting for anyone here to see the forest from the trees.

Anyway. Ignore me. Your one-sided conversation can continue. Sorry about the interruption.